I've worked in a few stores while working at Starbucks and there has always been this rivalry between the openers and the closers. I've been both, so I've seen and heard it all. However, the store I work at now has got to be the worst, primarily because the SM instigates a lot of it and only defends the openers. It's frustrating as a closing shift to feel like it's our job to do EVERYTHING, and I do mean everything, while the openers just have to come in, stand there for a few hours, and leave. They aren't given tasks and are not held responsible for anything. I could go on, but I'd much rather hear if the same drama occurs in your stores...
Night Crew Vs. Day Crew: Throw Your Gang Signs Up(87 posts) (67 voices)
ahaha YES! i used to be an opener and now i'm like a permanent closer.
where should i begin?.... well we have a shift who takes pictures of everything we miss and shows our SM lol
if the patio furniture is not stacked a certain way, we hear about it
If the sure shot's little tubes aren't the PERFECT length, we hear about it
If the tea's aren't set up with the tea bags already IN the pitchers, we hear about it
And there's usually complaints about the back trash being full, but i don't see why it's so hard to just take it out in the morning
And it seems like if we do set up extra stuff for them one time, cuz we have some extra time at night, it becomes expected
I've opened before and I end up spending so much time just standing around doing nothing. Yes, it does get busy, but it gets busy at night sometimes too and we have so much more to worry about then. I like midding the most because I'm able to clean up the mess of the morning and set up the closers well, but I don't have to actually close.
I hate it when the openers talk **** about the close, though. My closes always ROCK and if I missed anything it's because I genuinely forgot, not because I just didn't want to do it. Give me a break.
@frap, that is absolutely insane. You could either waste time taking pictures of things or you could, you know, actually DO them....
Yep we have this here too, but I'll up the ante and also mention that our SM (female) likes to have her select partners (female) with a few choice others thrown in (males, but ghey) work the ams and then the rest of us who don't fit into thay category play janitors when we show up and they all go home...
I've done both before. It's true it gets busy in the AM but damn they have to do something too. This seems to be a problem everywhere though not just Starbucks. Closers are always expected to do everything and even if you do a great job they'll still have stuff to complain about because they just want to come in and do nothing.
@Frap, wow sounds A LOT like my store...minus the patio furniture. They take pictures ALL of the time of the most ridiculous things. Once there were a few crumbs, yes crumbs, left in the BOH sink and they took pictures of that too. I said "wouldn't it have been easier to just rinse them down the drain than to pull out your phone and take pictures (there were more than one....different angles lol)? It's infuriating. And I agree about having extra downtime. One shift made the mistake, on an abnormally slow night, to do A LOT of extra things for them. Like put away the boxes that come in with the milk order, date dot all of the morning pastries and breakfast sandwiches, etc...NOW, this is an expectation, and if we don't do it every night it's like we're not doing our job. Since when did that become a closing task? Oh, right it isn't. Someone did a good deed for them and now they're spoiled and want it done all the time.
our store's team is actually really good about taking care of each other, and i think it's because we have a small team so we're able to communicate. i'm an opener and at my store we sure as heck don't stand around, we experience the rush and prep our butts off for the closers (who always understand when we miss something and we let them know, and they do the same for us). our store is a family, but it's weird because our manager can be difficult to communicate with and tends to be inconsiderate when it comes to prepping and scheduling, and that's the only person we really complain about.
Oh good, that's not just my store. Openers get every single thing short of having their @$$es wiped for them to 'prepare for the morning rush'. Yet when the closers come in, everything is a mess and nothing is stocked.
Holy crap at my store the openers dont do anything! They have like 5 people and at 11 they just leave without cleaning out anything. Then in the afternoon when we only have 2 or 3 people and its just as busy, we have to do everything. Sometimes it takes us an hour and a half after we close to leave. My SM works in the morning of course.
Oh my gosh YES!!! I work both mornings and evenings so I think it's pretty ridiculous what goes on, but it definitely happens. Seems that the more that the night crew is able to accomplish, the more that the morning crew expects done! No one has taken pictures I don't think, but there will be a huge list of things that didn't get done. This one night I noticed the list had gotten pretty ridiculous so I told the shift at night maybe we should start making an evening list too. It was the funniest thing because I was actually there as an opener on the morning of the evening crew's letter!!! It said something like, sorry we weren't able to (names petty little things that night crew is not actually required to do, such as putting tea bags in the pitchers and putting trays inside the pastry case) tonight, we were busy catching up because when we took the shift over in the afternoon no dishes had been washed all day, no garbage had been taken to the dumpster all day, all the garbage cans were over flowing, bathrooms hadn't been stocked, etc. Oh man, hell broke loose! I just stood back and watched, taking mental pictures so I could laugh about it later.
I'm not sure what the rest of the world goes through, but working mainly openings in Times Square, this is what a typical morning would be.
1) Shift shows up 10-15 minutes late.
2) The over night stuff for the pastry case wasn't properly done, so you'd have to fix that.
3) Customers would bang on the door at 5:55, wondering why you aren't open. (we open at 6)
4) Shift opens the store exactly at 6 am, despite the fact that I no where near done with the pastry case.
5) Shift proceeds to clean, putz, make tea and otherwise not do things, requiring me to fill and label the pastry case, ring customers, and often, make their drinks.
6) Around 6:30, second person gets there IF you're lucky to be scheduled with the responsible ones. Shift makes them slide, or something else BEFORE allowing them to get on register allowing me to finish the case.
7) I finally finish the case, in time to take my 10. Shift and then the other person take their 10. By now it's 7:30 and we have a line of **** off business men and women, as well as tourists, to the door. This line won't die down until 12.
I'm an opener and I can say with confidence that we have to deal with a whole lot more than our closers. My store is about 8 blocks from Times Square so like CoffeeFairy, I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere. I've closed too so I know for a fact that our morning sets up the night crew beautifully only for night crew to do a half-assed close. I.E. No back-up Mocha, frap roast, iced coffee, whipped cream..That's just the tip of the iceberg. It's infuriating.
@coffeefairy & nyc12321, don't get me wrong, I know the mornings are fast paced and hectic. I was an opener for years, so I know the deal. But what gets me is there's a huge ratio difference, 7 people in the AM to the 3 people at night? Nothing, I mean NOTHING is ever prepped for the closers at all. No mocha, french roast, whip cream, fridges are empty, ice tea pitchers are empty, milk carafes are dirty, all the coffees are blinking, and when the closers come in all the afternoon people run out the door. It's annoying because I know as busy as the morning is, there is plenty of downtime for people to do things, but instead they choose to stand around, bidding their time.
I was moslty an opener or the next person after the opener but i probly worked every shift there is. There were constant arguments about what the openers and closers were supposed to do . One shift insisted that the closers were supposed to do mochas and back ups which was total bs since there is PLENTY of time in the morning to make one or two fng mochas. I always felt bad for the main closers since they do most everything and have to deal with any rushes of frappuccino demanding middle schoolers AND worry about closing. I give mad props to them since the hardest thing about opening was getting up at 3:30am.
What usually happens is that the shift does all of that starting around 11 AM, and ignoring the customers. The closers are pretty good about restocking, but really crappy about cleaning.
My store's a big mix, since our schedule is befouled by crazy availabilities. I'm one of the few with completely open post-8am, but I still have to do a clopen every now and then, which is balls. Balls in my face. Less so these-a-days, though.
Instead of a rivalry, since everyone works just about every conceivable shift, we try to make an effort to possibly if we totes can make the job easier on the next guy.
wow! I can't believe some of the animosity between openers & closers. I guess we're fortunate to have a close-knit group. We genuinely make and effort to help the following crew.
Our manager came up with a list of responsibilities that each shift was responsible for completing. Openers had more QASA related cleaning tasks and the shift had to pull the frozen sandwiches. All empty whips and carafes had to be done in the fridge by end of shift. Mids are required to do the deposit, check in, receive and put away the order as well as get syrups, CBS area and back line floors completed. Again, any empty whips & carafes had to be done & ready in BOH fridge. As a closer, it made it easier to know exactly what was expected of each shift. From time to time (due to call outs or a extra crazy day) some things weren't completed, but the shifts have always communicated what has/hasn't been completed.
Perhaps some of these can work for your stores too. I would dislike working in such a hostile, us vs. them environment. Dealing with customers is bad enough - I can't imagine working with tools who don't care about each other as well.
What frustrates me the most (besides customers) is how morning people have the audacity to say they've got it rough. Mornings are early, DUH...it is busy, DUH. But that's IT. Seriously, all they have to deal with is these hordes of people. But they're STAFFED for it.
In the night time, we closers literally have to do EVERYTHING that morning crew didn't do. We also have to clean up all the fu cking messes they left behind. And to top it off, we have to clean everything else. All while dealing with customers, and trying to get the store ready for close. Guess what? Night time gets mad rushes too sometimes. Are we staffed for it? No. At my store, closing shifts are staffed with three people, and a precloser that leaves a few hours before close. But sometimes that isn't even enough, as opposed to morning's 7+ people.
It's ludicrous. Morning people come in, and generally get to stand around, handle some cash, then go home still clean (unless you were on bar)...whereas closers have to clean all fu cking night when it's late and we're just TIRED, and then we all get to go home smelling like mocha and sh!t and bleach and sweat and oven-cleaner and just...general stank. Then if you have any semblance of hygiene, you'll wanna shower. And perhaps you have homework that you need to do, or other stuff, or chores. By the time you do everything you need to do after work, it's well past 1am.
Nighties have MUCH more to do, AND have to deal with the customers. So screw any AM peeps that complain about MY close, because MINE are awesome despite all the crap.
My store is the same way except we aren't staffed for the morning rush. My manager gives up 3 people, I work at a drive thru, for our busy times.4 if we are lucky. So We are running around like **** already, just helping customers. And then she has people scheduled to leave right when we slow down. That leaves no time for cleaning/stocking, let alone our stupid daily/weekly cleaning tasks she wants us to focus on. They don't have it any better at night either since they are stuck doing things we couldn't do And they also don't have enough coverage.
There is no real divide in our store, because every barista/shift has closes about twice or three times a week, alongside midshifts and opening shifts. So everyone understand the full day's work at SB. This week alone, I work from 1:30 to 9 the next two days with a morning shift on Friday and Sunday. This is usually what my schedule looks like.
The problem, however, is that the SM and ASM do not close, and I don't believe they've ever closed (The SM is a corporate hire who's been here for just under a year and the ASM, well, she just seems inexperienced). They have very little understanding of what it takes to close a store; when the ASM deals out daily tasks, it's often exactly what we do when we close anyway.
I agree completely with Chicken0rFish. At our store, we don't have *that* much day vs. night crew rivalry, but there is still some. Most of it comes from day people who hardly ever close and therefore don't really understand how rough it can get.
It's funny because our store is a bit unconventional: we open at 8:00 every day except Sunday (which is 9:00), but it doesn't really get busy until 10:30-11:00. So the morning people really have two to three hours to do whatever they need to do! I hate when they complain that the closers didn't fully restock every little thing, because honestly, the day shifters have it a LOT easier...
@ fairy and nyc, I have worked at a few different stores so I know that it's not the same at every store. The location dictates what time of the day is busy (whether the store is near a business area or a night club) and the manager dictates whether there is enough coverage when there needs to be. But I know at the store I am now that's the way it is. I work both opens and closes (I try to avoid mids as much as I can lol) and for sure the night crew has it ten times easier! Not only are they picky about how they want things done, they expect a bunch of things done that aren't really closer duties. It is not a closer's duty to make sure pitchers have tea bags inside or that pastry case has trays inside, that's something we started doing to be nice and now it is expected. Sure right when we open we have a line of people waiting at the door, but as soon as that line is taken care of there is a slow time. And between 10-11am there is a small break before the lunch rush in which the morning crew has plenty of time to do garbages, dishes and stock, which they don't.
Day crew, what it do?
Night crew, got love 4 u 2!
hahaha wtf wake n bake this morning so now im just being stupid.
SOrry night crew for not getting you as set up as I would have liked yesterday,
but i couldn't get to EVERYTHING when I was the only person
on the floor for a whole freaking hour.
ring, call the line, make the drink, ring make a drink, call the line, ring. I swear i ran like 3 miles in between the espresso machine and my register. UGH.
Can I get a holla for the 930 to 6-ers who come start in the middle of the rush, re stock the lobby the morning customers destroyed, clean the cafe they wrecked, stock all the supplies the AM crew used, run the AM garbage, do the dishes from the morning, do the evening dishes, run the evening trash, clean mats and floors so the closers don't have to, do a deep cleaning task so at least one gets done, clean and sanitize everything to help the closers so they can set up the openers, bar the early afternoon after school and evening rushes AND sacrifice their entire day to make 8hrs?? Just saying...
Good point msbarista! The efforts of midshifters are overlooked all too often. I only do them once in a blue moon but when I get home from one I am beyond exhausted. Once again, so happy I'm an opener.
I've worked opens, closes, and mids and I've worked as an official partner at 5 different stores. That being said, I still get baffled now and then when openers **** about things that the closers left behind (like not putting plates with labels on them in the cleaned-out empty pastry case, which is apparently mandatory in my store now?!) unless they're big things, like not doing the floors.
I've discussed this issue recently with coworkers, and my theory is a two-parter. First of all, with labor ebbing and flowing, it's hard to schedule people when you don't have the allotted labor. And with not enough people on the floor, a lot of things go undone, especially when people have to be cut early to save on labor for the rest of the week (By the way, I LOVE midshifters. They clean up the mess and prep the closers, hallelujah!). Secondly, this labor is completely wasted on people that don't work as hard as the others. Sometimes they physically aren't able to, but usually it's a matter of them not going the extra step and cleaning the counters or at least starting the floors. Nothing makes me more angry than when I come in at 5pm for a 5.5 hour shift in which I will get no break because there was no pre-closing done and there will only be two people on the floor, AND at that point I know I will go home physically exhausted.
tl;dr if you're lucky enough to get the midshift, please don't plant yourself in one position and not do any pre-closing work. I also agree with senor, we should just help each other out period, and be understanding when stuff gets forgotten or left out of necessity or due to time constraint (SM: "Why did you get out 30 minutes late last night?? laborlaborbitchbitch").
Oh man, I have to post before I forget.
"But what gets me is there's a huge ratio difference, 7 people in the AM to the 3 people at night?" and "Seriously, all they have to deal with is these hordes of people. But they're STAFFED for it."
We aren't. :( Three people, two from 6-630, one at 630, then the next person to come in is 730, if it's not the SM who more often than not will call out, but insists on scheduling himself as a barista.
We have 30 minutes before opening, what about you guys?
And YES, THANK you mids- I often will often grin my face off when our fourth person arrives at 8 or 930 or whenever they're scheduled. You guys just rock. :)
(FYI I closed at my old store but it was all the way across the country...man, I loved closing. I had shutting down the bar down to an art form...ah, I miss those days.)
Honestly? I don't even care anymore as a closer, as long as something is 85% done. And if someone complains, I just retort with:
"Those 15 minutes of perfectionism will get destroyed by 15 seconds of carelessness on bar. I don't mind spending them though, if you want to pay me for overtime. ;D"
Case-in-point: Every time that I clean out the fridges 100%, some idiot spills iced coffee, frappuccino roast, or whipped cream inside the entire **** thing within the hour.
I hate the openers. I was having a really bad day once and this perky opener bimbo was like
"X, is something wrong? You look like you're having a bad day" and I responded,
"We make this place look perfect for you guys, how come you guys can't even reciprocate even a little bit?"
I walked away and she just kinda hid from me for the rest of the shift. I used to be an opener and the amount of work the openers do is peanuts compared to the hours of dish washing, stocking, cleaning, sweeping, mopping, setting, filling etc ON TOP of actually dealing with customers. They totally trash the place during the day and don't even do a single dish. And the midshifts just f-cking stand there with their fingers up their a--. I'm sick of it. When I work in the morning in my store, I'm thinking ahead and I at least do dishes and keep the store relatively clean and stocked.
Amen, msbarista, amen.
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